Meet the Expert: Marie Antoinette
Yes, I interviewed...myself
This Meet the Expert is different. It is a reminder that things do not always go your way, and that’s okay - it is a part of being human.
For our focus on Marie Antoinette, there were some back stage happenings that drove the Expert to be, well…me.
21st & 18th: Lauren, for our Readers, would you please introduce yourself and what you do?
LLW: I am the founder of 21st & 18th - a digital world where people have the opportunity to travel time through history, art and fashion. Currently I live in San Diego, CA, where I grew up, after moving all around the world (London, China, Washington DC, San Francisco, NYC) with my, now, husband, Wemple (spoiler: looking like we may move back to NYC soon). 21st & 18th has been an incredible endeavor inspired by my undergraduate study of Art History and time working in museums in different countries. I am a sucker for historical fiction novels and series, anything by Julian Fellowes or Sofia Coppola. When I am not reading, writing or creating some crazy content piece for 21st & 18th, you might find me dancing, taking a long walk listening to ABBA or playing polo - while I am a history fiend, horses were my first love.
21st & 18th: How do you approach selecting a figure or time period for research?
LLW: Typically I decide a theme at 21st & 18th based on what I can’t stop thinking about. As an extremely visual person with an obsessive personality I tend to become emotionally connected with the things, objects or characters I am studying, because of this I have a need to learn as much as I can about said topic until I’ve exhausted myself. The themes for 21st & 18th usually come from this obsessive, studious place in my brain or are close to my heart. For example, Marie Antoinette has always been close to my heart. I read my first proper biography on Marie Antoinette around age 12.
21st & 18th: Marie Antoinette ‘Week’ has produced the most articles of any themed week thus far at 21st & 18th. Why did you want to study Marie Antoinette specifically?
LLW: There is so much to her story. It’s easy to get carried away with the hearsay about this final fatal Queen of France, but the fact is there is a major amount of nuance in her life. While we want to be entertained with the snappy highlights, like any human story, the reality is Marie Antoinette was very complex. Like you, like me, she had thoughts, wants, goals, vices, talents, insecurities and made mistakes. Unlike many of us contemporary people can understand, she did not own her own life - she could not make decisions freely. She was told to marry this person at this time, to produce an heir, to embody this virtue or feeling for an entire country of people etc, and she couldn’t say ‘no’ to any of it. I wanted to study Marie Antoinette in depth on 21st & 18th because she is so well known globally but completely misunderstood, and that feeling of being misunderstood is something I can completely, utterly relate to. Perhaps I wanted to see that justice was finally, sort of-kind of served?
21st & 18th: As you got to know the last Queen of France, what would you say fascinated you most about Marie Antoinette?
LLW: My understanding of Marie Antoinette really shifted when I read more of her letters to her mother and at the end of her life to politicians, royals and other people of power who may have been able to help her and the House of Bourbon, or those who were close to her. In those letters, I saw two of many sides to this woman: a daughter, in awe of but also emotionally squashed by the greatness of her mother, a queen and mother, desperate to do the best she can for her country and people but if they won’t accept her, a mother desperate to do what she can to save her children.
Also, in a shallow way, I felt I got an inch closer to understanding the real MA, when I painstakingly powdered my hair for Antiquated Traditions. I loved this look, I didn’t want to wash it out.
21st & 18th: Across your research on Marie Antoinette, did you experience any ‘a-ha’ moments where it felt like you found the missing link in understanding her story or personality? If so, would you share about one of these moments?
LLW: Earlier this year, in February, I listened to a History Extra Podcast about Marie Antoinette: In Her Own Words. It was a game changing moment for me and MA, this woman who I had studied and thought so much about over the years, because the author and scholar being interviewed on the podcast, Catriona Seth a current professor at Oxford, so poignantly reprised the story telling of Marie Antoinette from her own perspective by analyzing her personal correspondence. It was the moment where I began thinking about history more maturely, and really sought to understand, as much as we can, historical figures from their own perspective. This podcast catalyzed an intense energy in me, I re-read my Antonia Fraser biography of MA and dusted off my copy of Stefan Zweig’s Marie Antoinette: A Portrait of an Average Woman, from 1923. I re-analyzed the Halloween’s I had dressed up as this Queen and how I channel her and how she has been channeled in fashion, like silly Selkie, or great and entertaining films. I thought about and studied Austria during the 18th century and prior - I just thought about as much of her life from a new angle, as I could. The result was, literally, 21st & 18th. I started 21st & 18th that same month as I felt enlivened and as if I had grown a great deal through a new type of historical research. I was enjoying this, it wasn’t for school or work, it was entertaining yet enjoyable and I felt like I was traveling back in time learning so much about one person’s world and life. I wanted other people to have this feeling and experience too.
This podcast is only available by subscription to History Extra, but you can listen for free via UK Podcast’s site. If you would like to read more about MA from History Extra, click here.
21st & 18th: If our Readers are absolutely mad for Marie Antoinette, in addition to reading 21st & 18th, where do you recommend they go for more information on her?
LLW: If you have not read Antonia Fraser’s Marie Antoinette: A Journey, buy it immediately. It is the most thorough and enlightening telling of her and a well done study on a person who lived long ago and had and still does have many things written and made up about her.
From there, I recommend researching the people in her life. Think of it like exploring the rooms off the wings of the kitchen of a house - you cannot understand how the house flows until you have walked through or at least peered into all its rooms.
Start on 21st & 18th, with her mother, Empress Maria Theresa and then with Élisabeth Vigée Le Brun - we’ve done the heavy lifting for you on those two. From there, learn about the Habsburgs in general as well as the House of Bourbon, so you can understand what Marie Antoinette was getting herself into.
It’s also important to brush up on the many Louis’. Louis XIV and Louis XV, the two kings, one sun and the other a lesser follow up to his Sun King Grandfather, but both immense over spenders. This research helps you understand that the poor fiduciary position France was in was not only Marie Antoinette’s fault, it was the fault of those who came before her etc
21st & 18th: If you time traveled to 18th century France and had the opportunity to speak with Marie Antoinette, what would you most like to ask her?
LLW: First, I would like to time travel back to the French Revolution. In the late 1700s, when MA was already imprisoned and after Louis XVI’s death by the Guillotine in January 1793. I would bring MA a snack, some nice wine (Merlot probably), a comb and Goop eye masks (these) from the future - she would love me forever for this kind deed - and while she supped and hydrated her visage we would chat. I am burning to first, see what she really looked like, and next understand her mental and emotional state of mind at this time. Did she have loads of regrets? Was she resigned to her fate? Or was there hope burning in her? Something tells me she would have be the latter optimist, always hoping and dreaming of a savior: the conscience of the French people, her powerful Austrian family, her royal sister in Naples, the friends she lifted up and made powerful…someone, anyone.
21st & 18th: Last Q, what are you currently obsessed with?
LLW: If you read 21st & 18th’s WIOW (What I’m Obsessed With) segment, you will know that I have a lot of roving obsessions - they’re what started this whole newsletter time travel thing.
At the moment, however, I have two obsessions, the first is slightly whimsical and classic LLW: Men’s coats in Colonial/just post Revolution America, Royalist or Revolutionary - while the cause matters to me because I’m an American, the outerwear of men of either side is delicious. I am currently in the midst of receiving production fabrics for some sample 21st & 18th apparel pieces we will be launching in 2024 and I can’t knock the idea of trying my hand at sewing a paneled, structured, buttoned, two tailed, tailored coat. Also inspired by a recent visit to Crowley Vintage in Brooklyn.
21st & 18th: And your second current obsession?
LLW: The model and flow of 21st & 18th. I keep asking myself what is this? Are there people out there reading, enjoying and sharing interviews with the President of the USPA or deep conversations with curators? Do people think I am crazy for wanting to time travel and meet Marie Antoinette or her mother, Maria Theresa? Do I even care what people think at this point? I can’t stop considering what 21st & 18th will become and how you, Reader, feature in its story. Who knows. Stay tuned.